Plato - Theaetus.pdf

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360 BC
THEAETETUS
by Plato
translated by Benjamin Jowett
THEAETETUS
PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: SOCRATES; THEODORUS; THEAETETUS
Euclid and Terpsion meet in front of Euclid's house in Megara; they
enter the house, and the dialogue is read to them by a servant.
Euclid. Have you only just arrived from the country, Terpsion?
Terpsion. No, I came some time ago: and I have been in the Agora
looking for you, and wondering that I could not find you.
Euc. But I was not in the city.
Terp. Where then?
Euc. As I was going down to the harbour, I met Theaetetus-he was
being carried up to Athens from the army at Corinth.
Terp. Was he alive or dead?
Euc. He was scarcely alive, for he has been badly wounded; but he
was suffering even more from the sickness which has broken out in
the army.
Terp. The dysentery, you mean?
Euc. Yes.
Terp. Alas! what a loss he will be!
Euc. Yes, Terpsion, he is a noble fellow; only to-day I heard some
people highly praising his behaviour in this very battle.
Terp. No wonder; I should rather be surprised at hearing anything
else of him. But why did he go on, instead of stopping at Megara?
Euc. He wanted to get home: although I entreated and advised him
to remain he would not listen to me; so I set him on his way, and
turned back, and then I remembered what Socrates had said of him,
and thought how remarkably this, like all his predictions, had been
fulfilled. I believe that he had seen him a little before his own
death, when Theaetetus was a youth, and he had a memorable
conversation with him, which he repeated to me when I came to
Athens; he was full of admiration of his genius, and said that he
would most certainly be a great man, if he lived.
Terp. The prophecy has certainly been fulfilled; but what was the
conversation? can you tell me?
Euc. No, indeed, not offhand; but I took notes of it as soon as I
got home; these I filled up from memory, writing them out at
leisure; and whenever I went to Athens, I asked Socrates about any
point which I had forgotten, and on my return I made corrections; thus
I have nearly the whole conversation written down.
Terp. I remember-you told me; and I have always been intending to
ask you to show me the writing, but have put off doing so; and now,
why should we not read it through?-having just come from the
country, I should greatly like to rest.
Euc. I too shall be very glad of a rest, for I went with
Theaetetus as far as Erineum. Let us go in, then, and, while we are
reposing, the servant shall read to us.
Terp. Very good.
Euc. Here is the roll, Terpsion; I may observe that I have
introduced Socrates, not as narrating to me, but as actually
conversing with the persons whom he mentioned-these were, Theodorus
the geometrician (of Cyrene), and Theaetetus. I have omitted, for
the sake of convenience, the interlocutory words "I said," "I
remarked," which he used when he spoke of himself, and again, "he
agreed," or "disagreed," in the answer, lest the repetition of them
should be troublesome.
Terp. Quite right, Euclid.
Euc. And now, boy, you may take the roll and read.
Euclid's servant reads.
Socrates. If I cared enough about the Cyrenians, Theodorus, I
would ask you whether there are any rising geometricians or
philosophers in that part of the world. But I am more interested in
our own Athenian youth, and I would rather know who among them are
likely to do well. I observe them as far as I can myself, and I
enquire of any one whom they follow, and I see that a great many of
them follow you, in which they are quite right, considering your
eminence in geometry and in other ways. Tell me then, if you have
met with any one who is good for anything.
Theodorus. Yes, Socrates, I have become acquainted with one very
remarkable Athenian youth, whom I commend to you as well worthy of
your attention. If he had been a beauty I should have been afraid to
praise him, lest you should suppose that I was in love with him; but
he is no beauty, and you must not be offended if I say that he is very
like you; for he has a snub nose and projecting eyes, although these
features are less marked in him than in you. Seeing, then, that he has
no personal attractions, I may freely say, that in all my
acquaintance, which is very large, I never knew anyone who was his
equal in natural gifts: for he has a quickness of apprehension which
is almost unrivalled, and he is exceedingly gentle, and also the
most courageous of men; there is a union of qualities in him such as I
have never seen in any other, and should scarcely have thought
possible; for those who, like him, have quick and ready and
retentive wits, have generally also quick tempers; they are ships
without ballast, and go darting about, and are mad rather than
courageous; and the steadier sort, when they have to face study, prove
stupid and cannot remember. Whereas he moves surely and smoothly and
successfully in the path of knowledge and enquiry; and he is full of
gentleness, flowing on silently like a river of oil; at his age, it is
wonderful.
Soc. That is good news; whose son is he?
Theod. The name of his father I have forgotten, but the youth
himself is the middle one of those who are approaching us; he and
his companions have been anointing themselves in the outer court,
and now they seem to have finished, and are towards us. Look and see
whether you know him.
Soc. I know the youth, but I do not know his name; he is the son
of Euphronius the Sunian, who was himself an eminent man, and such
another as his son is, according to your account of him; I believe
that he left a considerable fortune.
Theod. Theaetetus, Socrates, is his name; but I rather think that
the property disappeared in the hands of trustees; notwithstanding
which he is wonderfully liberal.
Soc. He must be a fine fellow; tell him to come and sit by me.
Theod. I will. Come hither, Theaetetus, and sit by Socrates.
Soc. By all means, Theaetetus, in order that I may see the
reflection of myself in your face, for Theodorus says that we are
alike; and yet if each of us held in his hands a lyre, and he said
that they were, tuned alike, should we at once take his word, or
should we ask whether he who said so was or was not a musician?
Theaetetus. We should ask.
Soc. And if we found that he was, we should take his word; and if
not, not?
Theaet. True.
Soc. And if this supposed, likeness of our faces is a matter of
any interest to us we should enquire whether he who says that we are
alike is a painter or not?
Theaet. Certainly we should.
Soc. And is Theodorus a painter?
Theaet. I never heard that he was.
Soc. Is he a geometrician?
Theaet. Of course he is, Socrates.
Soc. And is he an astronomer and calculator and musician, and in
general an educated man?
Theaet. I think so.
Soc. If, then, he remarks on a similarity in our persons, either
by way of praise or blame, there is no particular reason why we should
attend to him.
Theaet. I should say not.
Soc. But if he praises the virtue or wisdom which are the mental
endowments of either of us, then he who hears the praises will
naturally desire to examine him who is praised: and he again should be
willing to exhibit himself.
Theaet. Very true, Socrates.
Soc. Then now is the time, my dear Theaetetus, for me to examine,
and for you to exhibit; since although Theodorus has praised many a
citizen and stranger in my hearing, never did I hear him praise any
one as he has been praising you.
Theaet. I am glad to hear it, Socrates; but what if he was only in
jest?
Soc. Nay, Theodorus is not given to jesting; and I cannot allow
you to retract your consent on any such pretence as that. If you do,
he will have to swear to his words; and we are perfectly sure that
no one will be found to impugn him. Do not be shy then, but stand to
your word.
Theaet. I suppose I must, if you wish it.
Soc. In the first place, I should like to ask what you learn of
Theodorus: something of geometry, perhaps?
Theaet. Yes.
Soc. And astronomy and harmony and calculation?
Theaet. I do my best.
Soc. Yes, my boy, and so do I: and my desire is to learn of him,
or of anybody who seems to understand these things. And I get on
pretty well in general; but there is a little difficulty which I
want you and the company to aid me in investigating. Will you answer
me a question: "Is not learning growing wiser about that which you
learn?"
Theaet. Of course.
Soc. And by wisdom the wise are wise?
Theaet. Yes.
Soc. And is that different in any way from knowledge?
Theaet. What?
Soc. Wisdom; are not men wise in that which they know?
Theaet. Certainly they are.
Soc. Then wisdom and knowledge are the same?
Theaet. Yes.
Soc. Herein lies the difficulty which I can never solve to my
satisfaction-What is knowledge? Can we answer that question? What
say you? which of us will speak first? whoever misses shall sit
down, as at a game of ball, and shall be donkey, as the boys say; he
who lasts out his competitors in the game without missing, shall be
our king, and shall have the right of putting to us any questions
which he pleases. .. Why is there no reply? I hope, Theodorus, that
I am not betrayed into rudeness by my love of conversation? I only
want to make us talk and be friendly and sociable.
Theod. The reverse of rudeness, Socrates: but I would rather that
you would ask one of the young fellows; for the truth is, that I am
unused to your game of question and answer, and I am too old to learn;
the young will be more suitable, and they will improve more than I
shall, for youth is always able to improve. And so having made a
beginning with Theaetetus, I would advise you to go on with him and
not let him off.
Soc. Do you hear, Theaetetus, what Theodorus says? The
philosopher, whom you would not like to disobey, and whose word
ought to be a command to a young man, bids me interrogate you. Take
courage, then, and nobly say what you think that knowledge is.
Theaet. Well, Socrates, I will answer as you and he bid me; and if
make a mistake, you will doubtless correct me.
Soc. We will, if we can.
Theaet. Then, I think that the sciences which I learn from
Theodorus-geometry, and those which you just now mentioned-are
knowledge; and I would include the art of the cobbler and other
craftsmen; these, each and all of, them, are knowledge.
Soc. Too much, Theaetetus, too much; the nobility and liberality
of your nature make you give many and diverse things, when I am asking
for one simple thing.
Theaet. What do you mean, Socrates?
Soc. Perhaps nothing. I will endeavour, however, to explain what I
believe to be my meaning: When you speak of cobbling, you mean the art
or science of making shoes?
Theaet. Just so.
Soc. And when you speak of carpentering, you mean the art of
making wooden implements?
Theaet. I do.
Soc. In both cases you define the subject matter of each of the
two arts?
Theaet. True.
Soc. But that, Theaetetus, was not the point of my question: we
wanted to know not the subjects, nor yet the number of the arts or
sciences, for we were not going to count them, but we wanted to know
the nature of knowledge in the abstract. Am I not right?
Theaet. Perfectly right.
Soc. Let me offer an illustration: Suppose that a person were to ask
about some very trivial and obvious thing-for example, What is clay?
and we were to reply, that there is a clay of potters, there is a clay
of oven-makers, there is a clay of brick-makers; would not the
answer be ridiculous?
Theaet. Truly.
Soc. In the first place, there would be an absurdity in assuming
that he who asked the question would understand from our answer the
nature of "clay," merely because we added "of the image-makers," or of
any other workers. How can a man understand the name of anything, when
he does not know the nature of it?
Theaet. He cannot.
Soc. Then he who does not know what science or knowledge is, has
no knowledge of the art or science of making shoes?
Theaet. None.
Soc. Nor of any other science?
Theaet. No.
Soc. And when a man is asked what science or knowledge is, to give
in answer the name of some art or science is ridiculous; for the
-question is, "What is knowledge?" and he replies, "A knowledge of
this or that."
Theaet. True.
Soc. Moreover, he might answer shortly and simply, but he makes an
enormous circuit. For example, when asked about the day, he might have
said simply, that clay is moistened earth-what sort of clay is not
to the point.
Theaet. Yes, Socrates, there is no difficulty as you put the
question. You mean, if I am not mistaken, something like what occurred
to me and to my friend here, your namesake Socrates, in a recent
discussion.
Soc. What was that, Theaetetus?
Theaet. Theodorus was writing out for us something about roots, such
as the roots of three or five, showing that they are incommensurable
by the unit: he selected other examples up to seventeen-there he
stopped. Now as there are innumerable roots, the notion occurred to us
of attempting to include them all under one name or class.
Soc. And did you find such a class?
Theaet. I think that we did; but I should like to have your opinion.
Soc. Let me hear.
Theaet. We divided all numbers into two classes: those which are
made up of equal factors multiplying into one another, which we
compared to square figures and called square or equilateral
numbers;-that was one class.
Soc. Very good.
Theaet. The intermediate numbers, such as three and five, and
every other number which is made up of unequal factors, either of a
greater multiplied by a less, or of a less multiplied by a greater,
and when regarded as a figure, is contained in unequal sides;-all
these we compared to oblong figures, and called them oblong numbers.
Soc. Capital; and what followed?
Theaet. The lines, or sides, which have for their squares the
equilateral plane numbers, were called by us lengths or magnitudes;
and the lines which are the roots of (or whose squares are equal to)
the oblong numbers, were called powers or roots; the reason of this
latter name being, that they are commensurable with the former
[i.e., with the so-called lengths or magnitudes] not in linear
measurement, but in the value of the superficial content of their
squares; and the same about solids.
Soc. Excellent, my boys; I think that you fully justify the
praises of Theodorus, and that he will not be found guilty of false
witness.
Theaet. But I am unable, Socrates, to give you a similar answer
about knowledge, which is what you appear to want; and therefore
Theodorus is a deceiver after all.
Soc. Well, but if some one were to praise you for running, and to
say that he never met your equal among boys, and afterwards you were
beaten in a race by a grown-up man, who was a great runner-would the
praise be any the less true?
Theaet. Certainly not.
Soc. And is the discovery of the nature of knowledge so small a
matter, as just now said? Is it not one which would task the powers of
men perfect in every way?
Theaet. By heaven, they should be the top of all perfection!
Soc. Well, then, be of good cheer; do not say that Theodorus was
mistaken about you, but do your best to ascertain the true nature of
knowledge, as well as of other things.
Theaet. I am eager enough, Socrates, if that would bring to light
the truth.
Soc. Come, you made a good beginning just now; let your own answer
about roots be your model, and as you comprehended them all in one
class, try and bring the many sorts of knowledge under one definition.
Theaet. I can assure you, Socrates, that I have tried very often,
when the report of questions asked by you was brought to me; but I can
neither persuade myself that I have a satisfactory answer to give, nor
hear of any one who answers as you would have him; and I cannot
shake off a feeling of anxiety.
Soc. These are the pangs of labour, my dear Theaetetus; you have
something within you which you are bringing to the birth.
Theaet. I do not know, Socrates; I only say what I feel.
Soc. And have you never heard, simpleton, that I am the son of a
midwife, brave and burly, whose name was Phaenarete?
Theaet. Yes, I have.
Soc. And that I myself practise midwifery?
Theaet. No, never.
Soc. Let me tell you that I do though, my friend: but you must not
reveal the secret, as the world in general have not found me out;
and therefore they only say of me, that I am the strangest of
mortals and drive men to their wits' end. Did you ever hear that too?
Theaet. Yes.
Soc. Shall I tell you the reason?
Theaet. By all means.
Soc. Bear in mind the whole business of the mid-wives, and then
you will see my meaning better:-No woman, as you are probably aware,

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